Advice Needed On Front Wing Alignment Please

[cortinax14 10]

Can anybody shed any light on this for me please?

 

All the mounting points between the front panel and wing and inner wing and wing line up ok, but I have a gap between the wing and the top of the front panel. The indicator fits in ok and this gap is on the off side as well as the near side and is also apparent with the previous wings. The wings I am fitting are pattern parts and it does look as though the front panel has been removed/replaced at some point, but again, all mounting points lign up ok. I'm guessing that this gap shouldn't be there. Am I right? :headscratch:

 

Any help greatly received. :thumbup:

 

 

[bortaf 92]

I've lightened the pic up so the gap is easyer to see ;)

it shouldn't be there no but there's allways a gap somewhere with pattern parts unfortunatly, that's why they are cheaper than OE, mind you some pattern stuff is closer to OE than others, it could well be the front pannel is off more than the wing ?

If the rest lines up ok i'd fill it with seam sealer to keep dirt and water in the arch area but i would allways line the wing up against the bonnet and door and let the rest end up where it does, either that of you need to cut and weld small sections to get it right :unsure:

[cortinax14 10]

Hi Bortaf - thanks for your reply :thumbup:

 

I had a trial fit of the indicator and headlight today. Seems to lign up ok - what do you think?

 

The front panel does look like it's been welded back on at some stage of its life, but if this panel moves up to close the gap at the wing, the headlight isn't gonna lign up at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Think the answer is to just fill the hole - don't you?

[Jupiter Red Mark4 1]

Mark,

 

There is something amiss with the upper front valence panel, there should not be that gap between the wing and the upper valence panel.

 

Your Mark 4 has a Mark 5 lower valence, wondering if that was replaced due to accident or corrosion damage and that the upper front valence was replaced at the same time?

 

It does look like from the one photo that the joints between the upper valence panel onto the headlamp aperture / indicator mounting panel that sits behind it shows some evidence of past repairs.

 

The vertical distance between the bottom of the headlamp and indicator to the upper front valence panel looks a lot larger than it should.

 

On my Mark 4 (both pre and post the rebuild of the front end panels), the headlamps are a tight "push fit" on their mountings, and should not require a clamp to hold them temporarily in place - but it would be a brave soul not to do so...

 

What is the fit of the front grille like?

 

Only way to try and improve things may be to try a "cut and shut" of the upper valence panel :headscratch: .

Edited October 17, 2011 by Jupiter Red Mark4

[MK5CortinaEstate 54]

Your Mark 4 has a Mark 5 lower valence, wondering if that was replaced due to accident or corrosion damage and that the upper front valence was replaced at the same time?

 

Ooo, you could be right. Just looked at a photo of my MK5, and it is exactly the same shape, so probably a MK5 panel.

 

Personally, if everything else fits, and the lights/indicators look OK, and you can't see the step at the end, I'd just fill the hole with seam sealer or something similar.

[cortinax14 10]

Mark,

 

There is something amiss with the upper front valence panel, there should not be that gap between the wing and the upper valence panel.

 

Your Mark 4 has a Mark 5 lower valence, wondering if that was replaced due to accident or corrosion damage and that the upper front valence was replaced at the same time?

 

It does look like from the one photo that the joints between the upper valence panel onto the headlamp aperture / indicator mounting panel that sits behind it shows some evidence of past repairs.

 

The vertical distance between the bottom of the headlamp and indicator to the upper front valence panel looks a lot larger than it should.

 

On my Mark 4 (both pre and post the rebuild of the front end panels), the headlamps are a tight "push fit" on their mountings, and should not require a clamp to hold them temporarily in place - but it would be a brave soul not to do so...

 

What is the fit of the front grille like?

 

Only way to try and improve things may be to try a "cut and shut" of the upper valence panel :headscratch: .

 

Yes the upper front valence does look as if it has quite a lot of repairs going on at some stage of its life. There are rough weld spots all over. Is the upper valence on a mk4 different to a mk5? I know the lower one is, as I have got a mk4 one to fit and it looks totally different. I know that if I loose this gap, then the wing will sit slightly lower that the front panel at the bottom, so if the upper and lower valences are different on a mk5, this could be my problem, and all I need to get is a mk4 upper front valence.

 

The clamp on the headlight was just to stop it falling out.

 

I have measured between the bottom of the front lip of the wing and the top of the upper valence (as per picture) and get approx 180mm. Is it possible please for someone to measure this distance on their mk4 to see if it is the same?

 

If needed,is the upper front valence still available?

 

 

 

Thank you every body for your help in this.

[cortinax14 10]

Think I may have found the reason for my problems. I went to Halifax tonight to see the guy who used to own the car. The guy is in his mid 80s now, but he bought the car when it was 6 months old. He said about 15years ago it was involved in a front end accident, of which he has some photos. I collected the photos after having a good talk with the guy for over an hour, brought them home and scanned them ready to send back to him.

 

Here are some pictures of the damage. The only bit that concerns me is the impact was on the passengers side, but it has also moved the drivers side wing.

 

See what you guys think.

 

 

 

Now I know why it had a door skin fitted

 

[allan d 1]

hmmmmm hi its not a good shunt that is it i dont like the look of the wheel in the second pic looks like subframes moved back have you mesured the chassis legs do it from inner lh chassis leg to outer os chassis leg and vice versa you should get the same reading what did he hit my its really chewed up was there bay damage if its out drill all spot welds remove front valence see if you can jig it out but hopefully you wont have to good luck

the reason the drivers side wing pulled out at the front looks to me as if the bumper has shunted across and the side mounting has pulled the wing with it but the back of that wing im not sure maybe he opened door as it was out of alighnment it bent wing

Edited October 18, 2011 by allan d

[cortina crazy 0]

I'm no expert but that doesn't look good. Could be that something was overlooked when it was repaired, did the previous owner mention if it was repaired in a body shop or by himself?

As far as i was aware the only difference on the front of mk4 and 5's is the valence and the wings. How far are you planning on going with the rebuild? Its a pain if you weren't planning on replacing the front panel but i reckon you'd be better off removing it and checking chassis rails and things are straight.

Is there damage to the rear wheel in those pictures or is just because of the door?

[Jupiter Red Mark4 1]

Mark,

 

Just read this after my PM to you and further to previous posts. Sorry to say but that doesn't look good and answers my questions on why it had a Mark 5 grille and valence.

 

I had seen two types of genuine Ford upper front valence panels the would fit the Mark 4/5/P100.

 

The correct one for the Mark 4 should have only 1 slot in the raised vertical bracket section for the plastic clips to fit for the screws for the grille to fit. If you want, I should be able to provide the FINIS codes for both types.

 

I would really be tempted before I went any further to get the car checked out dimensionally.

 

I have copies of the Ford "frame dimensions" out of the workshop manual and copies of the Celette "Measuring System" drawings.

 

The Celette Measuring System is a very time consuming approach. When I was enquiring about having my Mark 4 checked (following all the structural work), I spoke to the bodyshop manager at my local dealer. He advised that they now only used the Blackhawk system and would need to see if data for a Mark 4 existed as it is now all computers and lasers...

 

None of the bodyshops I visited use any of the old Churchill or old Celette jigs and frames that would have been used to repairs these cars when they were current. One still had brass caps in the floor (perfectly level floor) where the Churchill jig was mounted. The bodyshop manager at my local dealer spent ages telling my about the specific jigs that they used to replace for example a front inner wing and chassis leg, or a rear chassis leg after the car was mounted in the jig.

 

I had access to a Celette jig (via the bodyshop who I elected to spray my Mark 4), but \I completely drew a blank on obtaining the jig brackets - I even contacted Celette to no avail and put out a wanted advert on here.

 

If the chassis is straight (or after it is pulled back into alignment...), I fear that if you want the panel alignment to be perfect that a lot of front end panel replacement will be required...

 

Your Mark 4 looks like it had some work prior to the accident as the sills are silver, but pre accident would have looked a nice car..

 

The under bumper fogs must have been on the correct brackets.

 

I guess that it must have been involved in an accident involving ice to cause damage to the front and NSR door?

 

Best of luck.

Edited October 18, 2011 by Jupiter Red Mark4

[MARK-H 21]

In my opinion id say its missed the chassis, and is not as bad as it first appears.

drivers wing damage appears from being moved across by bumper and then opening the drivers door

 

If it drives fine, and everything bolts up where it is supposed to id leave well alone, although I would be tempted to remove the front panel and reposition it to suit the wings..............

 

 

just my opinion :rolleyes:

[cortinax14 10]

When I asked Mr Richardson about the accident, he said the sar was stationary and some body hit him. He couldnt remember how the rear door got dented but then told me that the car wasn't repaired by the insurance company but by his brother, who had a garage.

 

The car drove in a straight line ok before I stripped it down. It didnt pull one way or the other. I was going to replace the lower valence anyway, so cutting this off isnt an issue. The only thing I am short of is the upper front valence (or is this part of the front panel?

[bortaf 92]

If that shunt didnt move the chassis i'm a monkeys uncle, as too wetehr it's still out ? who knows only measuring will tell that :headscratch:

the whold front of the car has moved over to the right, you can tell buy how far the drivers wheel is inside the arch and the deformation to the rear of the driver wing :(

Not that it matters IF the repair was done correctly and by that i meen not just removing the outer panels and sledge hammering the chassis straight (been there done that :oops: )

of course the problem could be down to the reshaping of the inner wing arond the impact area which is the exact area your having alignment problem with ?

as above i'd be having a dam good measure up i have the factory manual on PDF if you want scans of the chassis dimentions ?

[the-ford-cortina.com 226]

I'm surprised that got repaired but the answer to why it did is the phrase " his brother did it "

 

However I am with the general agreement of " if it drives straight " ( and presumably its been through MOTs since as well ? ) its not much to worry about. Is the wheel tracking ok as well ? as in not scrubbing patches of tyre off?

[allan d 1]

looking at the pics again that drivers wing is out by top of wheel and look at the camber of the back drivers wheel it looks wrong pity the car is stripped id have gone to a private road and had somone follow me in another car to see if the car was crabbing maybe the car will pull straight but you can alter the tracking on the car to compensate but if its crabbing well you cant just to be right , i worked for this guy down here for a few years brian leopard he was a time served jaguar body guy of the 60 s and 70 s my god he could do wounders you should of seen some of the cars we repaired and i mean tolerance was like a couple of mil :thumbup: