Advice Needed On Front Wing Alignment Please

[cortinax14 10]

Ok. After I had finished feeling sorry for my car and myself, I finished stripping the engine bay and dropped the front axle so I could get a closer look at the damage. I've got to say that it is not looking good :tears:

 

This section has a small crease in it. Hopefully you can make it out in the picture.

 

 

But underneath that, the metal has bent inwards, as though the chassis rail has moved downwards.

 

 

Also, just near the back of the battery tray, there is more distorted metal.

 

 

Then on the front subframe mounting, the underneath of the mount goes inwards, again, as if the rail has moved.

 

 

All the panels at the front of the car, barring the front top and bottom valance, have had extensive panel beating sessions on them, which is clearly visable. I wish I knew if the car had been jigged up or not after the accident, but unfortunatley, Mr Richardson (previous owner) could not remember. The accident happened about 15 years ago and after being repaired, the car was used for a further 4/5 years until being laid up in a barn until I bought it last year. When I bought it, it had a full MOT on it (dont know how it got this judging by the cars condition when I started to strip it :rofl: ). As I only did about 1000mls with it, I haven't really noticed any abnormal tyre wear.

 

My plan is to remove the front valence before the weekend, have a measure up and see what else I find. I really don't want to break the car, but I am reluctant to spend money on something I know isn't right. Just a thought - anyone know if chassis rails are available (new or s/h) and what would be involved in fitting one?

 

I offered up the drivers side wing the other day and this has the same gap. There is no evidence of any accident repair work being carried out on this side.

 

Bortaf - I bought the PDF manual off you a while ago, are the measurments on this DVD please?

[Jupiter Red Mark4 1]

Mark,

 

As per previous PM I have both the Ford data sheet and the Celette Metro 2000 measuring system datum sheet.

 

If you look hard enough you'll find chassis rails, but would be probably quicker to find a Mark 4 car that is being broken (there is a 2.0 Ghia in a yard in the South East), get them removed and get them blasted. I used a S/H offside one on mine (Thanks again Brett) got that blasted any necessary repairs were made.

 

The reason why a replacement leg on the offside was required has been discussed on here before, but the only panels on the front end of my Mark 4 that are original are the nearside chassis rail and the battery tray.

 

For some initial measurements to start you off (from the Ford datum sheet):

 

Inside (internal engine bay sides) of vertical section of rails side to side = 711mm +/- 2 mm (29.99" +/- 0.08")

Centre line to centre line of chassis rails = 762mm +/- 2mm (30" +/- 0.08")

 

After ensuring that the car is perfectly level side to side and front to back on a level surface also take vertical measurements from the rails equi distance either side and measure from floor to top of rails. This should give you an idea if further work / jigging / pulling work is required.

 

Don't give up now :thumbup:

[cortinax14 10]

Stephen

 

Thanks for that. :thumbup:

 

Is this 2.0 Ghia near you? If so, do you know what the place is called, or even have their phone number please? I really don't want to break this car just for the sake of the chassis rail. Although I do think I will have to get expert help when it comes to replacing it.

 

Mark

[allan d 1]

well i gotto be honest id be speaking to the last owner as to be honest thats not verry nice, that the he never mentioned it had a bad bump . would you still of bought it ? thing is the chassis might be straight now but its a good time to find out now rather that spending lots of money to find out you have to strip it down , you might be able to cut all front panels off then drill some spot welds off mesure. if theyre out, the chassis rails still look strong give chassis some heat with oxy aceteline and pull them back strait then re weld them :thumbup: it is upsetting but hay just another hurdle youll get there

Edited October 19, 2011 by allan d

[Jupiter Red Mark4 1]

Stephen

 

Thanks for that. :thumbup:

 

Is this 2.0 Ghia near you? If so, do you know what the place is called, or even have their phone number please? I really don't want to break this car just for the sake of the chassis rail. Although I do think I will have to get expert help when it comes to replacing it.

 

Mark

 

 

I'm in South Wales and the 2.0 Ghia is in a yard in I believe in Kent i.e. opposite end of the country!

 

Paul (BT Boy) posted some photos of it on here a couple of months ago and it has been there for some time.

 

Rest assured if it had been closer to me there wouldn't have been much left on it!

 

Why don't you also try contact Balby Auto Spares in Doncaster. They used to advertise a lot in Practical Classics and always indicated that they had Cortinas 1-5, Granadas 1-2 etc and other older cars.

 

Also agree with Allan - you would have thought that the previous owner could have at least mentioned what had happened to it :thumbdown:

Edited October 19, 2011 by Jupiter Red Mark4

[cortinax14 10]

Also agree with Allan - you would have thought that the previous owner could have at least mentioned what had happened to it :thumbdown:

 

I didn't buy the car from Mr Richardson. He sold the car to someone, who put an mot on it and advertised it on fleabay a few weeks later. I bought it off ebay. I found Mr Richardsons phone number while looking through the paper work. In fact the guy I bought it off, is selling a mk5 GL on ebay at the moment, so not sure if he is a trader or not. Here

[cortinax14 10]

Had a bit of free time this morning before going to work, so scanned some more pictures and took a measurement of the frame. Heres some pictures of the car after the 'repair'.

 

Is it me, or does the front valence look to be higher up on the passenger side? :headscratch:

 

 

 

 

I measured the highlighted dimensions in the picture below. The measurement I got was 389mm and the drawing says it should be 383mm +-1mm. I would have thought that this distance would be smaller if the leg had moved. Maybe I should remove the bushes and do it again?

 

 

Thanks for your help upto now guys - I really appreciate it. :thumbup: :thumbup:

[bortaf 96]

the center tubes tend to wear through the rubber up and backwards as that the thrust lines they take in use so i would try with them out and something in there thats solid?.

When you re-align a chassis you have to stretch it beyond where you want it to go to allow for it springing back after the puller is released it could be that or the as the front mount is on a wing as the chassis moves up it will move in an arc up and forward, making the distance greater if that makes any sense ?

[the-ford-cortina.com 226]

the center tubes tend to wear through the rubber up and backwards as that the thrust lines they take in use so i would try with them out and something in there thats solid?.

When you re-align a chassis you have to stretch it beyond where you want it to go to allow for it springing back after the puller is released it could be that or the as the front mount is on a wing as the chassis moves up it will move in an arc up and forward, making the distance greater if that makes any sense ?

 

makes sence to me .

 

basicaly the crux of it is , if the car has been jigged it might now have been pulled too far making it out of shape in a different way to when it was bumped ? not good news

[allan d 1]

to be honest it dont look too bad in them pics but front upper panel it ti ts up its well out by drivers headlight theres a gap and the headlights and indicators look like theyre in too much id cut off both valences ok then just tack new ones on in place then trial fil wings and bonnet lights and see what it looks like i think itll be ok :thumbup:

[mk4savage 62]

Hi Mate,

 

I just read through this post, What can I say...I feel so Sorry for you, It's such a shame to start work on it then find out something like this, I would be gutted if it was mine :(

 

Don't give up now though mate, Mk4's are getting thin on the ground now so it needs to be repaired. I know it's easy for me to say and I'm no bodywork expert but I reckon it could be put right, After all it looked good after the repair had been done and it did look a bad smash.

 

The picture of the chassis rail, It looks like someone has applied heat to it to straighten it, It's like the paint has been burnt off and not repainted afterwards?

 

Anyway, Good luck with it mate and hopefully you will sort it, I'm watching with interest.

 

Matt.

[cortinax14 10]

I just read through this post, What can I say...I feel so Sorry for you, It's such a shame to start work on it then find out something like this, I would be gutted if it was mine :(

 

I am gutted, Matt. :tears: REALLY GUTTED :tears: :tears: When I first went to see this car, I looked beyond all the rust and everything and thought 'This would make a really nice car'. Unfortunatley now, I am slowly loosing heart :tears:

 

But before I do............. Does anyone know how much it would cost to get the car on a jig, or for that matter, is there anywhere that can jig a Cortina? I don't want to buy a slam panel, upper front valence and chassis leg just to find out that the chassis is out at the rear as well. I really don't want to scrap this shell. As Matt says, mk4's are very thin on the ground now, but I have to be realistic. If this is going to cost more to repair than finding a new shell, I'm afraid the new shell would win.

[mk4savage 62]

I just read through this post, What can I say...I feel so Sorry for you, It's such a shame to start work on it then find out something like this, I would be gutted if it was mine :(

 

I am gutted, Matt. :tears: REALLY GUTTED :tears: :tears: When I first went to see this car, I looked beyond all the rust and everything and thought 'This would make a really nice car'. Unfortunatley now, I am slowly loosing heart :tears:

 

 

I understand Mate, When I bought mine I thought it was original until I found out it had half a sill fitted at some stage :shocking: and a couple of other things but those things were nothing compared to what you're dealing with.

 

A Re shell is another option I suppose If you can find a shell to replace it, at least your car would still be on the road.

[Jupiter Red Mark4 1]

I just read through this post, What can I say...I feel so Sorry for you, It's such a shame to start work on it then find out something like this, I would be gutted if it was mine :(

 

I am gutted, Matt. :tears: REALLY GUTTED :tears: :tears: When I first went to see this car, I looked beyond all the rust and everything and thought 'This would make a really nice car'. Unfortunatley now, I am slowly loosing heart :tears:

 

But before I do............. Does anyone know how much it would cost to get the car on a jig, or for that matter, is there anywhere that can jig a Cortina? I don't want to buy a slam panel, upper front valence and chassis leg just to find out that the chassis is out at the rear as well. I really don't want to scrap this shell. As Matt says, mk4's are very thin on the ground now, but I have to be realistic. If this is going to cost more to repair than finding a new shell, I'm afraid the new shell would win.

 

Mark,

 

Easiest way to measure the centrelines for the subframe mounts is first ensure that they are not distorted.

 

If ok re-mount them in the rails and get some bar with the same outside diameter as the inner sleeve of the push.

 

Use piano wire weighted down (like a plumb line) take take your horizontal measurements via the vertical drop lines (if this makes sense).

 

Also rough a ready measurement refit front suspension and rear axle and measure the wheelbase.

 

I was quoted verbally £150 to mount car on jig before any work took place. This was via my local Ford Main Dealer (that supplied the car back on 01/08/78) - on the condition that the dimensions were available from Blackhawk. Shop around for prices.

[cortinax14 10]

I think I have decided on my next move. I will hopefully sell my BMW tomorrow, which will give me enough cash to buy the wife a little runabout and also get me another Cortina. If this happens, I will advertise the shell just in case there is someone out there who can do something with it.