Tyres and rubbing (mk3/4/5)

[RichardJ 59]

I should have tyres on the front by the end of this week, so can let you know the exact sizes I've got and what fits then (with pictures), if you can wait.

I just need to sort a couple of things out before then.

 

Anything that fits the front will also fit the back, but I was looking at getting wider tyres/wheels for the back to maximise the available space.

The big issue I'm facing is that no-one seems to make 225/45R15 tyres anymore, which I reckon are the largest tyres that will fit inside the arch lip with the right ofset (on an 8j rim).  So i'll either have to go for 225/50 which will likely throw out the speedo and the extra height may risk them rubbing, or get 215/45 tyres which only seem to be made by one manufacturer.

[brian grech 114]

17 minutes ago, RichardJ said:

I should have tyres on the front by the end of this week, so can let you know the exact sizes I've got and what fits then (with pictures), if you can wait.

I just need to sort a couple of things out before then.

 

Anything that fits the front will also fit the back, but I was looking at getting wider tyres/wheels for the back to maximise the available space.

The big issue I'm facing is that no-one seems to make 225/45R15 tyres anymore, which I reckon are the largest tyres that will fit inside the arch lip with the right ofset (on an 8j rim).  So i'll either have to go for 225/50 which will likely throw out the speedo and the extra height may risk them rubbing, or get 215/45 tyres which only seem to be made by one manufacturer.

Thanks a lot for the help as those rims cost a fortune especially since i have to ship them to Malta. What is the rim size you went for please, as in whats the deep dish size(8j?) back and same front?

Edited June 2, 2020 by brian grech
added text

[RichardJ 59]

The front is where you'll have to have some compromise on the dish unless you want to roll the arches, stretch the tyres, lockout the suspension or massively increase the ride height.

 

I currently have 2" outer lips on the back on a 7j wheel, which gives it a reasonable dish when you look at it (about 1 inch), and has the centre part of the wheel pretty much sat level with the dish.  I'm looking to increase the inner lip/barrel to 6" though, to give me 8j wheels - if I can get tyres that work. 

I wanted to increase the outer lip size and get more dish at the back, but based on all of the above I have given up on that idea as there just isn't the room and don't want any rubbing.

 

On the front however, I had to use 1.5" outer lip (with a 5.5" inner lip/barrel for a 7j wheel) to clear the inside of the wheel arch.  I'm looking to fit a 195 tyre on it, although it looks like there is enough clearance for a 205 tyre.

The 1.5" lip on the front gives an almost stepped appearance to the wheel which doesn't look as good as the back.  The dish is still there, but the inner part of the wheel isn't flush anymore and sits forward by about half an inch.

 

I'll try and get some more pictures when I can.

[brian grech 114]

On 6/2/2020 at 1:56 PM, RichardJ said:

The front is where you'll have to have some compromise on the dish unless you want to roll the arches, stretch the tyres, lockout the suspension or massively increase the ride height.

 

I currently have 2" outer lips on the back on a 7j wheel, which gives it a reasonable dish when you look at it (about 1 inch), and has the centre part of the wheel pretty much sat level with the dish.  I'm looking to increase the inner lip/barrel to 6" though, to give me 8j wheels - if I can get tyres that work. 

I wanted to increase the outer lip size and get more dish at the back, but based on all of the above I have given up on that idea as there just isn't the room and don't want any rubbing.

 

On the front however, I had to use 1.5" outer lip (with a 5.5" inner lip/barrel for a 7j wheel) to clear the inside of the wheel arch.  I'm looking to fit a 195 tyre on it, although it looks like there is enough clearance for a 205 tyre.

The 1.5" lip on the front gives an almost stepped appearance to the wheel which doesn't look as good as the back.  The dish is still there, but the inner part of the wheel isn't flush anymore and sits forward by about half an inch.

 

I'll try and get some more pictures when I can.

Sorry to bother you again but now i am at that final stage where tyres are the final big expense, As i had said i am going for the image wheels which are identical to yours. I know a lot has been said and done but in a nutshell, without any arch lip modifications etc would i have issues in the front with an et 20 and 6x15 -195 tryes. Was going to go 6.5 at the back.

Sorry to bother you all again but these tyres are a big hole in my kitty and i need to get them over to Malta so i want to get it right first time.

Thanks for your help.

 

[RichardJ 59]

I did have to increase the offset on mine to ~ET34 on 7j rims (with 195/50 tyres - and am fairly certain 205/50 would also work well)  at the front to get them to fit properly and clear the arches with full suspension travel.  With ET20 wheel (which is close to what I used on the back, as clearance is better), they would have caught on the arch lip and prevented the wheel from properly tucking into the arch.   They weren't sticking out far enough to be illegal, but they would certainly have rubbed on tight cornering or heavy braking.  Unfortunately, this meant I lost some of the dish on the front and got a more "stepped" look to the wheel.

The first photo below is what the "stepped-look" needed to boost the offset looks like on the wheel, with the wheel's centre sitting slightly proud of the dish.

The second photo, is where I have placed a spirit level along the front face of the wheel, so you can see how far inside the arch it sits at normal ride height (actually on -1" springs, but the lighter engine then makes it sit at normal height again) - it's about 5mm inside which will obviously increase as the suspension moves upwards due to the short/long arm setup).  ET20 would make the tyres sit a further 15mm out,  even more so if you used 6j rims.

I am still happy with the wheels, and still think they look awesome.

Edited July 13, 2020 by RichardJ

[brian grech 114]

38 minutes ago, RichardJ said:

I did have to increase the offset on mine to ~ET34 on 7j rims (with 195/50 tyres - and am fairly certain 205/50 would also work well)  at the front to get them to fit properly and clear the arches with full suspension travel.  With ET20 wheel (which is close to what I used on the back, as clearance is better), they would have caught on the arch lip and prevented the wheel from properly tucking into the arch.   They weren't sticking out far enough to be illegal, but they would certainly have rubbed on tight cornering or heavy braking.  Unfortunately, this meant I lost some of the dish on the front and got a more "stepped" look to the wheel.

The first photo below is what the "stepped-look" needed to boost the offset looks like on the wheel, with the wheel's centre sitting slightly proud of the dish.

The second photo, is where I have placed a spirit level along the front face of the wheel, so you can see how far inside the arch it sits at normal ride height (actually on -1" springs, but the lighter engine then makes it sit at normal height again) - it's about 5mm inside which will obviously increase as the suspension moves upwards due to the short/long arm setup).  ET20 would make the tyres sit a further 15mm out,  even more so if you used 6j rims.

I am still happy with the wheels, and still think they look awesome.

Hi thanks a lot for your priceless info. So  to be certain on what to order you went ET 34 on 7 j rims at the front and ET20 on 7 J at the back with 195/50 all round tyres? Did you specifically order image wheels to tailor make the front ones Et 34?

Any picks of the rear wheels please sorry to be such a pain but as said before don't want to waste money on wheels that will not fit.

Thanks a lOOOTTTTT!

Brian 

Edited July 13, 2020 by brian grech

[RichardJ 59]

For the Front ones I got the wheels made up by Image with the following parts:

15" FM Classic Build centres

1.5" Outer Lip

5.5" Inner Barrel

That gives you a 7" Rim with an offset of about ~ET34 --ready for 195 or 205 tyres

 

The above wheels will also work comfortably on the rear without any issues, but if you want to go dishier with the rear wheels you will need:

15" FM Classic Build centres

2" OuterLip

5" Inner Barrel

That gives you a 7" Rim with an offset of about ~ET21

 

However, the ET21 offset rear ones are a bit more of a gamble as the spacing between tyre and arch is only a few millimetres, and I found out on the MTOC website that the axle widths can vary quite a bit from car to car,  so something that clears on one car may not on another - which seems to be why some mk3s seem to look like their rear wheels are really tucked inwards and others don't.  It would therefore be a safer option to just stick with the ET34 ones all round. 

 

I did actually change the rears again in the end on mone, as I wanted to fit the widest possible tyre I could.  So I swapped the inner barrel to a 6" one to give me 8J rims at the back, with the view to fit 215 or 225s tyres to it - 225 being the maximum width that will fit inside the rear of the a mk3 without mods.

 

[brian grech 114]

Thanks again,you are such a helpful person will post pics of  them on on my post on bsc when done.Should you need anything i can help please ask. Will be more than happy to take you round the island  should you ever visit Malta. Best of luck with your car! 

[RichardJ 59]

Thanks Brian,

 

Good luck with the rest of the build 

[brian grech 114]

13 hours ago, RichardJ said:

Thanks Brian,

 

Good luck with the rest of the build 

Thanks and same to you!

[Stuwindsurf 4]

Sorry to bring up an old topic but I am struggling to understand how a 205 tyre on a 7J rim et38 with a 205 width tyre fits inside the front wheel arch 🤔 I have a 7J rim with an et38 in front of me currently with a 225 width tyre (which I know is too wide), when I fit it to the car the tyre sticks out 25mm further than the inner edge of the wheel arch. So if I were to fit a 205 width tyre to the same wheel that would reduce the tyre stick out by 10mm, which would still be too wide to fit inside the wheel arch by 15mm! 

 

I am taking my measurements with the car sat on the ground with 1" lower springs, so unless the wheel moves inwards a considerable amount when the suspension compresses I don't see how a 205 would work! I know plenty of people have fitted them so what am I missing?....

[sheffieldcortinacentre 764]

To be honest I don't , just know that I've never had luck with that width, the racer has 7x14 Weller steels can't remember ET but 195/60 or 65 to cold to go check & these occasionally rub on outer arch & the rear is 6 linked so barely moves.

[Stuwindsurf 4]

3 hours ago, sheffieldcortinacentre said:

To be honest I don't , just know that I've never had luck with that width, the racer has 7x14 Weller steels can't remember ET but 195/60 or 65 to cold to go check & these occasionally rub on outer arch & the rear is 6 linked so barely moves.

 

Thanks Craig, just trying to understand how it's possible 🤷‍♂️